Monday, January 26, 2009

About the Amnesia attacks

Updated on 15th June 2009 - Prologue - About this post, wanted to tell the readers something. This post was written as soon as seeing the news reports about the attacks. I am now completely against this post and the remaining posts about the attacks. The reason I didn’t delete these posts is to remind myself not to be biased at all in the future – S c o r p.

Seeing from the comments I got from an 'Anonymous' friend for my post (http://giriraajan.blogspot.com/2009/01/dont-drink-else-drink-and-get-beaten.html), it seems that it's a taboo to say that there are two sides to a coin :). I've seen virtually everyone declaring that the girls are attacked mercilessly. But, I've not seen anyone raise the question about what have they done to get attacked like this. I've clearly explained this in my previous post about the Amnesia attacks.

Now, is it morally right for a girl to booze in a pub? I know most will say 'yes'. But, I've seen girls become vulnerable in pubs after drinking. Our soceity views a girl visiting a pub as a slut. Everyone knows about this. It is dangerous for them to go to such places where men drink and behave like animals. Ultimately, the girls are the losers. But, it seems that rising a voice against this has become a taboo, and instead I must also shout like the others that these girls are innocent angels from heaven, who visited the pub just to preach the sins of drinking to the people present there, and while they were tying to preach this, got attacked by the mob!

People. Think first. If the girls were attacked, what was the reason? Think about this, instead of going after the emotionally charged herd. I know very well that the people now supporting the girls will definitely try their hands if they confront the girls in the pubs after drunk heavily.

So, think about the other side. And then post comments.

24 comments:

prashanth bhat said...

May I know which school you went to and what sort of upbringing you have had? Because this post from you raises serious questions of your morality and cultural upbringing?

Would you make advances at a girl who is drunk? If yes, than you have no right posting this. It's a man who has no control over his libido who should be punished and not the girls? Are you trying to put across rubbish argument that girls provoke rape, just because your insatiable libido is not in your control?

And what do you want readers of your blog to think when there has been a blatant attack on the rights of the individual? If you do not have enough brains to think for yourself and if you are retarded enough to want others to police your personal life, why the hell don't you go and live in the middle east where short sighted and narrow minded idiots like you can find solace and protection amidst the self imposed moral brigade?

Come on man, grow up? If you think women are vulnerable after a drink, try to protect them if you can. Else demand that the state provide protection so that the woman can enjoy her drink without being pried upon by your libido?

Stop passing value judgement on people!

The S c o r p said...

well, seems tat u have some strong words there. Wil tel u something. First of all, I didn't say tat I'l make advances towards a drunken girl. I'm giving d other side of the happenings in d pub. I've clearly said i oppose drinking. I've seen d negative side of it, and hence, I oppose drinking. Let it b a male or female, my point is, drinking must b stopped. U can never support drinkers, however hard and harsh ur argument is. It ultimately leads to death. Fullstop.

Now, About ur argument on me tat I should live in d middle east, well, as long as people like u, defending drunkards and half clad sluts boozing and behaving like shit live here, there is no harm in me livin here too. If u guys wanna live a slut's life, then u can move to states or d other countries, where nothing is wrong buddy.

And, oh.. Letting a girl to finish up her drink. Tat's a nice one. I'm proud about your upbringing and your schooling! Wow ! Maybe you'll be joyous and proclaiming to d entire world tat your sister or your mom or ur wife or some family member is drinking peacefully and tat you were letting them enjoy their 'drink' ! Bullshit !

C'mon dude ! Don't try to make up foolish half baked arguments juz to proclaim tat u r one of those so called 'broad minded' idiots. Everything is fine until it comes to u Buddy. Would u allow any of ur family members to drink ? If yes, then it's high time for u to attend any course for lunatics. Imagine ur sister or wife coming home after a 'peaceful' drink ! Maybe u have d libido to jump around joyously proclaiming tat they are drunk and it's a boon to u from d heavens! :-)

wake up man. Go sleep. May b tat wil calm u down. Or else, go hv a peaceful drink wit , well.. Anyone :-)

stop passing half baked foolish arguments to support drunkards!

The S c o r p said...

Hi ppl,

well, seems tat my post has outraged some of u. a short while ago, I got one idiotic comment from a Vineeth which i deleted, since coz of d foul lingo in it. Well, if u want to comment, do it in decent language. No need to do it wit foul lingo.

And, to vineeth - buddy. I saw ur comment. Tat was d most idiotic one I've ever read :-). Don worry i'm not gonna foolishly retort as u did. Read it once again, and u'll understand tat it's crap. I'm not gonna waste my time replyin to it. Hence I deleted d crap.

I've changed d settings so tat d comments wil b moderated henceforth. This's coz of fools like this guy. I'l post d comments which don hv foul lingo in it.

keep posting ur comments, and njoy life!

The S c o r p said...

:-) this vineeth guy has become a total lunatic :). He has commented again wit totally funny words which, if read, clearly gives us d info tat he is a mentally retarded one. I laughed out loud after reading it :-).

vineeth - thanx for d entertainment. U made me to laugh for sometime.:-). And from ur comment it became evident how u cal ur family members and how u do things wit ur mom :-). U r a revolutionary who 's tryin out new relationships wit ur mom:-). Lol :-)

Bobby Nakka said...

From your picture you seem to be a well educated guy who happens to hold a good job. However, your arguments on this issue are very narrow minded. What exactly is moral? Not drinking and staying home all the time invisible in public.

Morality is an individual trait not a public one. Who set the morality of society? Can you explain to me why there are Gods and deities in Hindu mythology that have donned appearances of "Mohinis" to seduce "Maharshis" in order for good to prevail.

A person's choices should not be looked down upon its not for us to judge these girls. Prashanth is correct in saying why should the girls be blamed for the men who can't control themselves. What makes men better than women?

Drinking is bad for your health not for your morals. Before you start claiming that people in the US and the west lack morals try to understand the concept of morals.

Morals are not about your image in society they are about your beliefs and how you live by these beliefs. A drunk person is high in moral character if he choses to do the right thing like protecting the girls, the non-drunk sri rama sena members are the ones low in character when they attacked the girls like animals.

Before I go let me ask you a question that you can think over you don't need to respond to this question. Say you are out on the streets and you lost your wallet with a lot of money in it..... and you start screaming and yelling because you lost some money. How would you want the by standers to react? Treat you like a lunatic or come to your help....

A person who comes to your help might be that drunk or the slut you are trying to preach, a person who calls you lunatic might be that sri rama sena guy.

The S c o r p said...

Hi Bobby,

Read ur comment. I’ll tell u. I knew clearly before I started to write my post that I will be called a narrow minded one. Just because I didn’t support the girls drinking in the pub, and I was mentioning that every problem has two sides. Every one is looking on only one side, that the girls were attacked. Why were they attacked, no one is bothered about. Seems that even if you commit something wrong, no one should question you about that.

In India, as I said, there are certain things which, when heeded, will create problems for everyone, and our lifetime will go juz by answering the questions which arise due to it. The exposure is quite limited, with respect to certain things. And, just like certain people saying that drinking is right, certain of us say drinking is wrong. You would have noticed. In India, will it be possible for a girl to wear bikini in a beach in Chennai? You may say it is possible. But I know the consequences. At least a hundred people will come to the girl, asking for her price. It is possible in Goa, where there is exposure. Whereas, in Chennai, it’s not possible.

Similarly, in US, there is exposure and nothing is considered as wrong when a girl drinks, say for an example. But in India, it is not so. Still the girl is considered as the epitome of moral values. That’s the reason they were attacked. There are certain things to do and not to do. If these ‘not to do’ things are done, then it will create problems definitely to the person doing it, and the entire lifetime will be wasted in facing and answering those questions.

I know clearly about morals. And I know the harm of drinking also. I can never justify the theory of a girl boozing in a pub. For that matter, even a male. Also, I will never justify the attacks. I have never said I liked the attacks and I’m happy about it. I have just mentioned that it were the boozing people who got attacked, and not people who did nothing. Cause and reaction. I learned that warnings have been received against the pub which allegedly was reported of selling drugs too.

Now, what I want to tell is that, don’t justify the drinking just because they were attacked. Think about the other side also.

And, about the question u asked. That is totally absurd. Losing a wallet is different from getting attacked because of drinking. You can never compare these two. And, definitely people will come to your help if you have lost a wallet, found stranded in the streets. Whereas, if you are attacked because you are drinking, it will raise a question or two among the minds.

So, out of sheer emotional outbursts, instead of supporting drinking and drugs, it’s better to oppose it. There are a lot of real problems which gets to be serviced for the country. Let’s concentrate on them. I’ve been posting comments about this from day one, and I’m getting tired. This is my point of view, and it differs from yours. That’s all. So, let’s care for the people who need real help, and not on these drunkards.

Silvara said...

Interesting how you decided not to publish my comment - why?? I realise it's your blog - but I also don't believe it's fair to exclude a comment that was in no way insulting to you but addressed the points made in hand.

The S c o r p said...

Hi Silvara,

I deleted your comment coz of foul language in the post. Do express your view without the foul lingo and it will definitely be published for sure.

Silvara said...

What did I say?? Bullshit? I'm sorry - I don't think there is another word to describe it

The S c o r p said...

Nope. it had something like f*** . Hence I deleted it. If you can send it without that word, I will publish it.

Silvara said...

For some reason you didn't publish this comment either:

Other reactions from the women in India:

http://chandni.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/india-is-my-country/

http://themadmomma.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/and-this-is-how-we-spent-republic-day/

http://lifeofanindianhomemaker.blogspot.com/2009/01/sexual-harassment-has-many-other-names.html

http://lifeofanindianhomemaker.blogspot.com/2009/01/calling-all-perverts.html

http://lifeofanindianhomemaker.blogspot.com/2009/01/mangalore-we-are-with-you.html

Silvara said...

Another one you should definitely look at:

http://ofsongsforthesoul.blogspot.com/2009/01/moral-police-ladies-and-gentlemen.html

Silvara said...

Sums up my comments beautifully:

Quote:

"The Khushboo controversy stems out of a society so deeply imbued in patriarchal doctrines that it forgets basic human rights.

It is the consequence of a society where men assume 'natural' dominance over women, and this norm is constantly preached in the name of tradition and culture.

Women may have found economic stability and independence but the basic ideologies about womanhood continue to be pretty much the same and what is even more poignant and disturbing is that we women have internalised these oppressive social norms and values.

Women still cannot exercise the kind of social freedom that men enjoy and yet when anyone tries to question these values, society curbs their freedom of expression.

This episode throws light on the fact that a woman's true emancipation can occur not only by economic independence but also with a change in ideologies and norms prescribed for women.

Therefore, it is essential that women strive not just towards economic independence but also towards social liberation, which allows them the same rights as men.

Every woman is entitled to freedom of choice and that is her basic right as a human being."

Indian Home Maker said...

Would you agree with this mother?

I think even if we do approve of what somebody is doing we cannot use violence against them. I think it is fine if girls and boys mix - they have to work as colleagues, and live with each other they must interact. The segregation of men and women is not an original Hindu concept.

And American culture is not all bad. Women in America and most of the West can walk out of abusive marriages, and even widows can safely raise their children on their own.
They don't judge a girl because of the way she dresses - the anti social elements there know that if they behave like this they will not be excused - a molestation/violence/attack are all crimes - and no matter how much we hate the way their clothes, we cannot tear those clothes.

And alcoloc men are condemned because they spend all their money and their wives money on liquor, they become sick and they beat their children (sometimes kill them in their drunk condition) and their wives, they borrow or even steal money - it is like drug addiction.
But frankly I am also not in favour of drinking, I have even blogged about it, but still I can never condone any violence and specially against girls.

India is the land of a culture that accepted individual freedom, we need to go back to our true roots. We must unequivocally condemn any attacks on men or women in the name of culture/religion/conversions/language/caste etc.

The S c o r p said...

Hi Silvara and Indian home maker,

Read ur comments. I have given my point of view in all the previous comments I have posted here. I'll give my thoughts about the points which you have raised for which the replies are not found in my previous comments.

These attacks were made a big issue because of the involvement of Ram sena. Since it's a politically oriented and supported party, and since such a party has launched the attacks over the pub, it's now a major issue.

But, think about this. If an enraged father or mother stood in front of the pub, complaining about their son or daughter having consuming drugs or alcohol inside the pub, questioning the pub owners why is this happening. Then, what do u think would have happened?

They would've been easily showed away from the pub. From your points which say about the liberation of woman and giving freedom to women, are you trying to justify that it's not wrong for a woman to do anything and she should never ever be questioned? India considers woman folks to be a step above the men. It still believes that a woman can bring the change. In such a country, imagine the plight of a parent if they know about their daughters and sons getting in to the pub and consuming drugs.

That's the reason it was attacked. And the consumers of those drugs too, got attacked. What would you think if this issue had been taken to the police? Nothing would have happened, I bet. the pub would've continued to sell drugs, the young people would've continued to consume them, the parents would've continued to cry for their siblings.

Now, at least there is an awareness that henceforth people should be careful going to pubs. This will definitely help from avoiding drugs.

And, I'm not at all against individual freedom, but it must be with a responsibility.If you still support people going to a pub and consuming drugs as individual freedom, then, well, it's stupid.

Women cannot enjoy social freedom? They can. But if such things come under social freedom, it's best for them not to enjoy it. That's what I say.

I saw all the links. They emotionally are charged up about the attacks and they have completely forgotten about the fact that it was a pub which sells drugs got attacked, along with the consumers, and it was not a temple or a church or a mosque which got attacked. So, think about this.

Comments are welcome.

Indian Home Maker said...

Just two questions,

1.So you support violent mob attacks to control drugs and drinking problems of all Indian citizens?

2. So the girls' (no boys were attacked) parents are very satisfied and thankful to the Sri Ravana Sena for saving their daughters?

3. What about the girls, if they were adults do they have any say in how they wish to be taught a lesson?

The S c o r p said...

1. As I have already said, this would've definitely continued to prevail even if it would've been taken to the police. In India, this is the case. The pub owners bring in the police under their payroll, and so nothing would've happened.

If some angry parents have joined together and launched an attack and then gave a press release that they did these attacks to safeguard their siblings from the drugs, then every one would have agreed. I'm sure. Only that ram sena is an offspring of a political party, this issue is opposed .

2. The boys were also attacked. That is the truth. And, thinking about it, answer my question. Is it independence to go to the pub to take drugs without letting the parents to know about it?

3. Even the adults need a lesson, if they stray from what's right or wrong. If you happen to go inside any pub, for taht matter, you will know how people behave. I have seen that so many times, and thank god I'm out of it. You have to visit at least one pub and take a look. After that, you won't raise this question again.

The S c o r p said...

Our friend the Indian home maker has declared in her blog that it's a policy for her to delete the comments which she doesn't agree with. Seems that her blog is only for the people whom agree and support her. That case, what 's the need to run a blog? Ah.. there... She juz changed it in to something else, after seeing the comment I posted in her blog :).

I have clearly given all her points here and have given my point of view also, but seems she likes more to delete all the comments which talk about the other side of the coin. :) escapism? :)

And, our friend Silvara has commented in the same blog that 'some people are going to continue thinking this way because of some moral high ground they feel they stand on even if it means justifying other wrongs.'

'Justifying other wrongs' - Well, does that include supporting people who take in drugs and vehemently arguing for them even after clearly knowing this fact? And, seeing ppl drink and booze and take in drugs doesn't make ur blood boil?

Nice argument, but baseless.

Anyways, more comments are welcome.

UI said...

Hi Scorp ..
while i do not agree with the points you have in your article .. as we can not say just because men do not keep control at themselves we sud not allow women to visit pubs or any such place. its their choise if they want to go or not..

On the Managlore incident i have a different take as i doubt many of the claims made in that ..

http://unsungindian.blogspot.com/2009/01/mangalore.html
http://unsungindian.blogspot.com/2009/01/mangalore-part-2.html

Bobby Nakka said...

Mr. Scorp you keep mentioning that none of us disagreeing with you have understood the other side of the story. We do understand but don't try to rationalize these attacks by using references like "cause and action". These sena members are cowards, they attacked people who couldn't defend themselves. Did you even see the videos of brutally they were pushing these girls to the ground?

You mention that the pub is notorious for selling drugs and prostitution. Please explain to me why did the sena members attack the girls and their friends why did they not attack the pub owners and staff. I am sure they would have taught these sena members a good lesson in how to beat up people.

You also mention that there are certain things that women can't do in India because men can get carried away by those actions. You are definitely narrow minded because you are saying because some people won't allow it you can't do it. That is narrow mindedness, because if you were open minded you would say that people who obstruct others ways should be taken care of not stopping what you want to do because it is not allowed properly.

You also keep mentioning that women in the US do things this and that don't you know a lot of woman in India both married and unmarried do somethings too. Just because you don't hear about it does not make it not true.

I am in no way trying to offend you if you feel that way please accept my apologies.

Remember anywhere India or abroad every person has the right to choose. Who are you and I to claim that a woman has to follow certain rules?

The S c o r p said...

Hi UI,

Saw ur links.. Thoughtful. They need to be thought upon. It's nice to see a different perspective.

The S c o r p said...

Hi Bobby,

Yes. I saw the videos in the news and that's when I wrote my post. Yeap. The girls were pushed to the ground. But I didn't emotionally become charged up and started condemning it totally. If the people were attacked, what was the reason?

And about explaining the sena members not attacking the pub owners, I'd've been happy if it had happened, since it will make a fullstop for that pub. I can never justify drinking and drugs. NEVER.

I'm mentioning certain things are not possible in India. Yes. It's not because I'm narrow minded, but it's just that some things cannot be done in the name of freedom. Responsibility must accompany freedom. At any cost. Example: girls drinking and dancing and finally complaining about the attackers. If a girl drinks in India, although she is a pure angel who got drunk for some 'noble' purpose (??!!), she gets questioned. That's coz here women are considered a step above man. I'm totally against drinking. Let it be a man, a woman or a eunuch. Hence, I will never accept the fact that girls can drink and proclaim it as freedom.

And, it's funny for u to name me as a narrow minded man since coz I think girls should not drink. I think no one should drink, for that matter. It's unnecessary to indulge in certain activities and then blame others for having questioning u. As I said, since you have freedom, can u do anything?

I didn't say women in the US keep doing something. it was an answer to Prashant who was talking about living in the middle east.

Yes. People have the right to choose. Provided, they do choose responsibly. You can never justify the fact that someone is getting drunk. After choosing the irresponsible thing, people must be ready to face the consequence also. It's not that one chooses just like that, and complaining about the consequence coz of that.

And, there is no need for any apologies buddy. It's juz a difference of opinion between us. That's all. It's not an enmity between us but juz a difference of opinion. See ya.

PS:- Silvara. I deleted ur comment. U know the reason. mentioning F*** and mentioning the four lettered word, both are same. Moreover, I have answered to ur comment thru this comment to bobby.

Silvara said...

Whatever dude. As I said - if you don't have the balls to publish comments then I'd like to see if you had any balls to stand up to the same attackers if your sister, or friend or girlfriend was in there.

Or then, they 'deserved it' right? Because according to you, women who enter a pub are 'taking drugs' and deserve to be beaten, called a whore, humilated and intimidated.

Riiiiight. Stay in your bubble, if you cannot see that unprovoked violence is wrong in the name of religion and 'culture' then you are no better than a terrorist yourself.

The S c o r p said...

I can see u r still in the same 'blood boiling'outraged mood Silvara. I'll tell you. I'll definitely delete any comment which has foul lingo in it. However hard u can scream about it, u can. But it's of no use whatsoever.

"I'd like to see if you had any balls to stand up to the same attackers if your sister, or friend or girlfriend was in there"

My sister, friend or girlfriend will NEVER EVER visit such places in their lives. That I'm sure. And they also are sure about it. Hence, I don't have to defend boozing at any cost. And I don't have to defend drunkards like you do.

"Or then, they 'deserved it' right? Because according to you, women who enter a pub are 'taking drugs' and deserve to be beaten, called a whore, humilated and intimidated"

Oh. I was lacking the good thought that women who enter the pub always go there just to preach the harms and sins of drinking to the people present there, and I was thinking that men and women entering the pubs were gonna booze. Thanks for enlightening me about the purpose of people going in to a pub.

"Riiiiight. Stay in your bubble, if you cannot see that unprovoked violence is wrong in the name of religion and 'culture' then you are no better than a terrorist yourself"

Riiiiight. I can see you very well staying in ur own bubble that anyone can do anything but they should never be questioned or face the consequences because they were lacking the responsibility for the thing they did out of their idiotic concept of 'freedom' :).
And let me be a terrorist, in your own sense. I don't bother, coz I know what is the meaning of freedom with responsibility and what is called as freedom without responsibility.

the thing you are madly and angrily shouting and supporting is nothing but freedom without responsibility. And that's even more dangerous than anything. Coz people can choose and do anything and since juz coz they lack the balls and can't face the consequences, can shout and make a scene about this, and it will attract some passer by like you, and immediately will start shouting for their support. You like drinking and hence you support them. I hate drinking and I detest them. It's that simple.

So, try to understand what irresponsible freedom is. And then post. Don't always be in a 'blood boiling' state :)

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